no prong collars here - ever
Tuesday, March 9, 2010 at 04:54PM Just had a wow moment.
Customer came in - said she was not sure if I would have it - but did I have prong collars or pieces for them . Was not sure which she wanted cause as soon as she said prong - I started shaking my head.
That stopped her from asking - and I said " No I don't carry them , order them or believe in them". End of story for me.
I started to ask her if she had seen the alternatives to these not necessary devices and she gave me the hand and walked out.
I am not sure if I was feeling sad or mad. A little of both.
I am not a dog trainer - but I work with a lot of them - and have seen the options and they are out there.
I work with a rescue group that handles big dogs - Pitbulls, Labs, Amer. Bulldogs etc. and they never use these types of collars. They use all of the other resources out there - like Wonder Walkers, Halti and other head collars and Easy Walk Harnesses.
I am not going to apologize for my decision to not carry these items. But will be more then happy to help you find a better more humane solution.
Reader Comments (11)
Totally agree with you and am glad to be a customer of a store that does not carry such inhumane products.
I'm so glad you posted this story. I have dozens of friends in the dog community and I will warn them not to shop in your store. You are right -- you are not a dog trainer. People who work with dogs know that, unlike any other type of collar, a prong collar distributes force evenly around the dog's neck if he pulls on his leash. Other collars put pressure on the trachea which can cause permanent damage if the dog has a problem with pulling. The prongs do not go into the dog's neck and the collar is designed not to tighten enough to harm the dog. It staggers my mind that you actually sell "head halters". If a dog jumps in the wrong direction wearing one of these nasty things, his head will be jerked back at an angle, breaking his neck and killing him instantly,UNLESS the "halter" is properly secured to a normal collar -- but if he has a normal collar on, why mess with this other thing?
Hurray for your customer who has obviously done her homework and knows that, if you are training an energetic young dog, the only safe, humane thing to use is a prong collar.
For anyone reading this who has heard the nonsense about "inhumane" prong collars, there is a quick way to find out how silly that is: Obtain a prong collar and put it on yourself. If you put it on your own neck and pull up on the chain, you will experience exactly what your dog experiences --- and you will know not to listen to stuff you hear at the Immortal Dog Pet Supply and Bakery.
Note - Lynette - Not sure why you would tell people to not shop at my store because I do not believe what you do or carry a product you believe in. There are many products out there and a store for them all. Immortal Dog works hard to make a positive difference in the pet community and I am sad that you need to be so violent towards someone who has a different belief than you.
I agree with Lynnette. I have had big dogs (boxers and mastiffs) my whole life and have had a heck of a lot more problems with head halters than I have ever had with a prong collar. I do not use choke chains, and usually my guys wear harnesses. But I have no problems with a prong collar; used correctly they are painless and effective.
I respect Immortal Dog's right to carry only products they believe in, but I think they could use more education about the safety of different types of collars. There is also a wide range of experience and knowledge among dog owners and some training collars may not be right for beginners.
Prong collars are just a tool, and if you know how to properly use them and properly size them, they are much safer for most dogs than the halti type collars. They unfortunately look like a medieval torture device, and that turns off many dog lovers and novice trainers.
I've also put one around my neck to experience what it felt like when tightened, and I recommend that to anyone who is considering using one.
Wow, I'm so glad I read these comments so I know that I'm a bad dog owner using those nasty, nasty head halters. My dog may jump and break his neck! We're smirking up a storm over here.
Many dog supply companies don't carry prong collars and its no reason to boycott a good store. Prong collars get a bad rap, and shouldn't be used with all dogs, just like the choke collar or buckle collar or the head halter can be wrong with some dogs.
I respect your descion to not carry whatever tools you don't agree with - and next time I'm in Seattle I'll stop by.
People say that using prong collars are safe if used properly. I think that's a big IF. Cesar Millan says that prong collars are not long term solutions. I would never use one.
Hhhhm, Lynnette, could it be that you were the woman that walked in and asked the question about the prong collar? Immortal Dog is a smaller boutique dog store, so it cannot possibly have every supply possible. The owner should have every right to carry the products she believes in. For goodness sake, the thing is called a prong collar. Why would you want to have your most loved one in a prong? If I have to test it on myself to prove that it is safe, than it is unnecessary. I would understand bashing Immortal Dog if you received bad service, but bashing it because it did not have one product? That is uncalled for. Immortal Dog is a wonderful place to buy pet products from. I feel confident the products I buy from Immortal Dog are safe and of good quality. I have always had a good experience and appreciate the personal service and advice I receive from the owner. I highly recommend Immortal Dog!
Thanks so much for the dialogue - I could remove these comments - but I think dialogue is important.
Immortal Dog only works with positive based trainers. We do not support traditional training practices.
I grew up with traditional training - as a new adult dog owner a few years ago of a small dog I was interested in getting her the best training. I also knew I did not want to "correct" my dog as I had learned growing up. I found an amazing group of positive trainers to work with and have not looked back.
When I see prong collars on dogs it is often "I was told to use it" or "my trainer said I needed to use it to control my dog" or that they are fit improperly. Like the large Corgi that came in yesterday wearing a prong collar that should have fit a dog the size of a small boston- and it was digging into his neck - and could not have been comfortable.
What is a dog learning by being pinched? Don't pull and you get pinched. So if you take them off the prong collar have they learned to not pull? If so - why are they wearing them their entire life?
If you have a dog that pulls and you want it not to - then get to a class and practice casual heel and loose leash walking. All walking tools are just tools - they don't teach a dog - but the Wonder Walker and the head collars at least are comfortable to wear.
I am sorry that someone will not shop here because I won't carry prong collars - we have different views on how to train our dogs. But there are other things I won't carry and I am glad I have the opportunity to not carry rawhide or foods that have been in recalls or foods containing wheat and corn.
I love pets - and at Immortal Dog we are excited about helping our customers pets live full happy and healthy lives.
I am not sure what is the right choice is here, but I know from watching Caesar Milan, he uses a variety of collars and leashes, which DO include prong collars. I think you have to choose the right collar for your dog and their behavior. If you have a spastic, out of control dog, a head halter is obviously not for your dog. If your dog pulls uncontrollably, prong collar may not be for your dog. I don't think there is a perfect dog collar and owners need to make a decision for themselves. I think condemning someone for carrying or not carrying a certain collar is ridiculous. Make a smart decision for yourself and your dog. Let's not be negative and try and hurt someone’s business. Small business owners are the future of this country and we should be supporting each other and not getting hung up on ridiculous details such as this.
Hi all,
It's great to see so much dialog!
Since I do advocate their use, I would be interested in seeing hard data on the mortality rates that involve proper use of a head halter. I, like my dogs, can always learn something new. If the foundation on which these products are based is truly dangerous, it's important to know! That said, we all know things improperly used can be dangerous. Cars are a perfect example.
While I do agree with the posters that have said collars are tools and they are only as good as the handlers and trainers that use them I do have this to add:
Choke chains and prong collars are based on the use of what we trainers call "positive punishment". That means the addition of something unpleasant to make a behavior go down in frequency or intensity. Spanking a child for lying with the intent of having him stop doing so would be an example.
If prong collars were not physically painful they would not work. That is the entire premise: the dog wants to avoid the prongs or the choke. How much pain they cause would be variable and entirely subjective from trainer to trainer and dog to dog. However, it is disingenuous to say that prongs and chokes are not unpleasant to dogs.
For those of us whose training methods are based in teaching dogs what we do want, chokes and prong collars are a big no-no. I applaud the proprietress of Immortal Dog for carrying only those products in which she believes. That is why I send my clients there!
I have a 42 lb aussie mix. We've used a few different trainers, based on what I was trying to teach. Our main trainer, for advanced obedience, suggested a prong collar because my dog was pretty difficult to handle at 8 months old.. I'd used it for my now 12yo standard poodle for most of her puppy-hood so I was familiar with PROPER use for them.
That being said, Nicole's point is a valid one. Prong collars teach the dog to not pull WHEN IT IS ON. Not forever! It is a temporary fix to a long term problem.
We switched, recently, to a harness that Nicole suggested based on my needs, and my dog's OWN behavior. It was not a general "This works for every dog ever" selection. I have a puller. He needs to be working or doing something to be happy, and nothing near his neck was getting a message through. This was not my fault as a bad pet parent. It is simply a trait of him being an aussie.
The harness is working very well. It's also helping me train him where I want him to walk even if I'm not holding a leash. I don't like the haltis because people assume it's a muzzle, and are then scared of my dog.
I am a vet technician. I've worked in the animal medical field for almost ten years. I have never seen a broken neck from a dog using a head style halter. I would like to know where that has happened.
Long story short (sort of) I support Immortal Dog for many many reasons. It is the owners choice what products she chooses to supply. If you choose to use prong collars, that is at your discretion. ID has many other things to try besides halters and collars ;) I shopped there for the past year while using the prong collar on my dog, and I'm alive to tell the 'tail'!